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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  October 2, 2013 3:00am-4:00am EDT

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point, we don't like the new health care law, we predicted it will fail but we respect the way the system works. the reason i wrote this new book that came out today "tip and the gipper" is to show our system can work. i was there right in the middle of it when it did. that's "hardball" for now. "all in with chris hayes" starts now. good evening. from new york i'm chris hayes. tonight 20 hours in a u.s. government shutdown, republicans are facing the unpleasant reality of the world outside the conservative bubble. >> rarely have i seen an instance where one party is so much more responsible, guilty, than the other. >> so the stakes have really been raised in this now. >> is there any grace saving way for republicans to back themselves out of the corner? >> it's a mistake and it is
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hurting the republican party. >> but we also want basic fairness for all americans under obama care. >> what do you say for the workers, sir? >> my favorite is identity daily news." >> "the house of turds." >> the president seized the bully pulpit to say once more we will not negotiate. >> let me repeat, nobody gets to hurt our economy and millions of hard working families over a law you don't like. >> as the president stands firm, republicans continue to turn on each other. >> there's so much opposition to that policy, it's madness, going absolutely nowhere. >> i think what we're going to do is play out the strategy that i would call that's kind of an oxymoron because it's really not a strategy. >> with the gop in disarray, the right-wing media is working
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overtime to spin a government shutdown. >> 800,000 federal workers furloughed, okay? most people won't know that. >> this is a pinprick. it is not the end of the world. >> people are probably going to realize they can live with a lot less government. >> maybe i'm just one of the few people, i'm just not -- this doesn't impact me mentally. we've had 17 government shutdowns. >> look at this. >> that is such an appropriate headline. how do they get away with that? >> inappropriate and accurate. >> while fox news attempts to rebrand the shutdown, a slim down in some epic denialism. the real effects of the shut down are unfolding across america. an army post in huntsville, alabama, people are stocking up on perishable. >> everybody is shot be today trying to get as much as they
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can get because they don't know what's going to happen. >> a furloughed employees in new york, virginia prepares to find new work. >> it's devastating. >> what's next for you? >> make some money on the side, cut some grass, bartend, whatever. >> reporter: and in the nation's capital today, as world war ii veterans stormed the barricade of the shuttered world war ii memorial, the republicans lawmakers who shut the town down tried to hold a press conference amidst the shouting protesters. >> you guys are worthless! >> an overwhelming 72% of americans are opposed to a government shutdown to block the implementation of obama care. we're watching in realtime the consequences of that shutdown playing out almost like everyone said they would. >> it gives the president a bully pulpit and a gigantic stick on which to beat us. >> this is going to be a complete disaster.
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>> if only october john boehner listened to march john boehner. >> there's no reason to get into a debate about shutting down the government. it's just not a smart thing to do. >> joining me now is white house press secretary jay carney. we're hearing the house of representatives is going to pass and send over to the senate for a bunch of mini crs for things they feel are inconveniencing their constituents. >> it demonstrates the lack of seriousness the house republicans have known in approaching this very simple task, which is fulfilling their responsibility to keep the government open, to extend funding at current levels, no partisan strings attached by democrats, no partisan strings attached by the president, just do your job, fund the president, keep it open. the president said as he has said all along and has all year
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to discuss negotiations about broader budget issues, how we invest to make our country secure and continue to reduce the deficits. but in a balanced way. this approach demonstrates they're still not serious. it's like they're cherry picking little pieces to keep open because it's inconvenient to keep them shut. the right thing to do if they want them open is to keep them open. >> right now we're going to go to the october 17th debt ceiling limit as announced by the treasury. at a certain point if this extends, does there come a tipping point at which the white house will not sign off on a deal that doesn't also include a debt ceiling raise? because it seems to me that a
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week from now if you're passing something to get us out of the shutdown and turning around and finding yourselves staring down the barrel of another fight of the debt ceiling, that doesn't do anyone any good. >> let me say two things, chris. one, the habit that republicans, especially in the house have of, you know, governing by crisis and consecutive crisis and habitual crisis is bad for the economy and bad for the american people and we oppose it. secondly, you're right to raise the debt ceiling because the concern that we have is that as bad as shutting the government down is with the hundreds of thousands of hard working americans who couldn't go to work today and aren't getting paid and all the other negative impacts of shutdown, default is infinitely worse. it would be catastrophic, as the imf said today. the mere flirtation with default as we saw in 2011 by these same house republicans would have
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truly damaging effects on our economy and on the middle class. so we're opposed to that. but the president is being clear, no negotiating over congress's responsibility to pay the bills that congress has racked up. we won't negotiate over that. >> you talked about the habit -- i want to ask you, you talk about the habit that's been formed here and the need to break that habit. i wonder if you think the president and the white house bear some responsibility for the habit because back in 2011 when the house republicans first threatened essentially default in the process of trying to get leverage for a budget deal, the president was willing to negotiate. did that set a negative precedent that we're now living with to this day? >> there's no question, chris, that of the 40 plus times that congress has voted to raise the debt ceiling, the singular exception to how they approached it was 2011 and that for the first time in our history, one party, in this case the republicans, chose to actually
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flirt with default and that had negative consequences and were the first to acknowledge that had negative consequences that were bad for the economy. what the president was trying to do that year was reach a comprehensive budget great with the speaker of the house and with republicans in the house and the senate and he hoped and believed he could and he thought that would be the right thing for the economy. he certainly never supported the idea and i remember standing at the podium absolutely castigating those who supported the idea that we could flirt with default. but we learned that summer that republicans were willing to do that and americans across the country paid the price for it. >> white house press secretary jay carney, thank you so much for your time. >> thank you. >> joining me now is senator chris murphy, democrat from connecticut. senator, one of the things -- one of the themes in the first 20 hours of this from a political standpoint is it seems to meet democratic caucus in the senate and house are quite united. you've seen the house leadership
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bring a number of different attempts at trying to game out something that will kick the ball back into your court, whether it's appointing to a conference committee or a failed attempt to pass mini crs. is that the case, that the members are all on the same page? >> we're willing to talk to the republicans but not while the government is shut down. we just can't continue to run government by crisis. what we're talking about here is essentially a six-week continuing resolution so as a price of keeping the open for
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majority caucus in the senate wouldn't be able to just pass a clean continuing resolution. we would be in negotiations probably right now. >> so think about how bad this looks and how much worse it would be if the filibuster was operational.
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for those who of us want the filibuster gone, this is an example of at least how it makes it a little bit better without it. if there was a filibuster, i'm not sure the republicans would all stand together because there is a group of republicans in the senate who actually think that this tactic on behalf of the tea party in the house is foolish, who can vote now because they know it's only a 50-vote requirement but likely might join with us because ultimately a lot of the senior republicans in the senate know that this is so destructive to the republican brand to own this dysfunction that the republicans do right now. >> there's already a battle brewing in the press about the reality of what this shutdown looks like. what are you expecting to hear from your constituents as it plays out? >> i think people are pretty tired of hearing about this. they're used us to walking up to
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the precipice, the cliff, the deficit and then walking it back. we're starting to get phone calls from people who didn't really think they were going to get furloughed who are now out a paycheck, from seniors who thought their social security claim was going to get processed but isn't. you're going to see a mounting furor from the public. i'll admit, some people just blame everybody but people who know it's not everybody, know it's the republicans to blame. you'll see how devastating this is and how simple it is to fix if john boehner just called a clean vote on the continuing resolution. >> thank you. i mentioned three mini bills
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that would fund government benefits, government operations in washington and national parks. those were all defeated moments ago. this is the latest strategy after failing to receive two-thirds of the votes necessary to pass, for a procedural reason i'm not going to explain," the president threatened to veto any mini bills if they made it through congress and these didn't make it through congress. the senator from illinois joins me. now the house leadership can't even get the votes to pass the gimmicky stuff they want to pass to try to blame democrats or the senator or the white house. >> i think what they want to do is say, oh, you see those democrats wouldn't open up the parks and they wouldn't open -- you know, help the veterans. it doesn't really work because
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they don't get to pick and choose what parts of the government that they want. but, chris, i want to say one thing.
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coming up, i'm going to talk to two republicans who spent decades working in washington politics and on the hill and to ask is it me or is the republican party truly off the rails right now? we'll be right back.
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here's what a republican said about some of his colleagues in their desperate attempt to defund obama care through a government shutdown. "lemmings with suicide vest. they have to be more than just a lemming because jumping to your death is not enough. you have this group saying somehow if you're not with them, you're with obama care. if you're not with their plan, exactly what they want to do, you're with obama care. it's getting a little old." i'm a liberal, a little confession, and i'm inclined to think republicans are crossing into extreme new territory by holding up government funding after losing an election to destroy a signature piece of legislation of the country's majority party, a piece of legislation that was passed by both houses, signed by the president, deemed constitutional and extensively litigated in the last presidential election, one whose main goal is to give millions of americans access to health care. there are republicans just as perplexed as i am by the
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republican strategy. and let's talk to some. >> joining me, economist bruce bartlett and michael lofgren,
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i don't know if this comes from their fundamentalist religious outlook for whether it's just good fund-raising for them among their base, but they are no longer a normal political party. they are an insurrectionist party that is bringing down the government. >> okay. no longer a normal political party. i have heard a lot of commentators say this. i want to play devil as advocate
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>> i would say newt gingrich's speakership was a weigh station on i way to where we are now. but the gop as it exists now is kind of a frankenstein monster created by the twin shocks of 9/11 and the financial meltdown in 2008. because 9/11 sort released a lot of unpleasant things in the american id, a kind of absolutism of good versus evil, a kind of totalitarian outlook. we've seen this with the nsa. and then the 2008 crash was similar to the great depression in many countries. we were lucky. we had fdr. many countries went violently to
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the right. >> yeah. the twin traumas of those two crises is part of what i think forms the legacy of the breakdown in kind of institutional norms. bruce, the other way that people talk about this is the way that a combination of the big one in 2010 and the way to shape the way districts are controlled at the state level, gerrymandering and democratic divide between the house of caucus and the rest of american where the house of caucus that want the strategy don't look like the constituents that went to the poll to elect barack obama. >> they're right. one thing i want to add to what mike said is there are deeply historical forces at work here. we talk about republicans taking over the south but actually it's the other way around and the politics of the republican party
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today can best be understood as the politics of the southern democrats. now, don't misunderstand me. i'm not saying that this is a racial matter. i'm just saying that the nature of the politics is the same and i've been thinking a lot the last two days about a term that you're probably familiar with called massive resistance, which was a term that was used in the 1950s to people who opposed the brown versus bored of education decision and used any means necessary, constitutional, legal, illegal, whatever it took to fight the desegregation of the public schools. and that, in that sense, the republican politics of today are the same as the politics of the southern democrats of the 1950s. >> rejectionism, economist bruce bartley, former staffer mike lofgren. >> we sent producers out in the field today to find out how
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people were doing. a report is coming up.
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this is footage from march 23rd, 2010 as president obama signed the patient protection and affordable care act. it's the law we now canned obama care. it's become a visual shorthand for obama care, especially for people like news the television news business when you want people to stand you're talking about obama care, that video is an easy choice.
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this is nbc news on the night the bill was signed. here's rachel maddow two years ago when it was upheld by the supreme court and just recently >> nearly everyone who sees this video, that little boy remains frozen in time. that little boy is now 14 years old. as big as that day was in 2010, this day is just as big. he joins me live in studio. stay with us.
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from what i understand through
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the affordable care act, that my premium is going to be about $75 to $85 a month. that is what i consider affordable. >> that was a woman who was laid off from her hospital job in january and battled osteoarthritis ever since. >> glitches kept the web site in new york and other states prevented people from signing up today the new york department of health announced its web site saw 7.5 million hits by mid-afternoon. avila said she didn't mind the glitches. she didn't care if she had to wait until tomorrow if that's what it took to finally get health care she could afford. >> health care access that was 80 years in the making.
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>> the idea of national health care was first considered by franklin delano roosevelt. fdr nearly included it in the social security act, but he was met by strong opposition from a group that would play a major in killing efforts to expand health care over the next 70 years, the american medical association, the trade group for doctors. ten years later, it was harry truman who called on congress to create an optional national health insurance fund run by the federal government. a house subcommittee called the plan a communist plot. in the end, it was the korean war that brought truman's efforts to an end.
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when lyndon johnson signed medicare into law 20 years later, it was the efforts of harry truman he credited with making it possible. in the early 1970s, senator ted kennedy worked behind the scenes with president richard nixon to find a compromise national health care plan. nixon was facing the usual opposition from the usual suspects and kennedy dreamed of a single payor system. but compromise seemed within reach. >> the purpose of this program is simply this -- i want america to have the finest health care in the world. >> but on the very day in 1974 that nixon sent a message to congress proposing a comprehensive national health insurance plan, the house of representatives voted to investigate him over the watergate scandal. the kennedy/nixon talks ended, the nixon presidency ended and the issue of national health care didn't come to the forefront for another two decades.
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>> nothing is more important than ensuring every american has comprehensive health care benefits that can never be taken away. >> it looked like universal health care would finally become a reality. but the establishment and business community once again poured money into killing it. >> they choose, we lose. >> the industry succeeded in turning public opinion against the bill, and by summer of 1994, the clinton plan was dead. >> now is the time to finally keep the promise of affordable, accessible health care for every single american. >> barack obama made universal health care a priority of his 2008 campaign and the first major initiative of his presidency.
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the public was with him. congress was with him. even after 70 years, the ama was with him. but the right wing was united in opposition. opponents warned of death panels, socialism, a government takeover of health care. even as democrats abandoned liberal priorities like the public option, the ugly debate raged on. the law improbable survived a series of near-death experiences until democrats finally pushed through a bill by a whisker in march 2010 and the president signed the affordable care act into law. that was three and a half years ago. the fight didn't end when the bill became a law. it has survived 40 republicans attempt to appeal it, a challenge by the u.s. support and today with the u.s. government should down in an ill-fated last gas effort for republicans to stop it, the obama care exchanges are open for business. >> i don't want to sound political but i voted for this
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and it makes me proud to know my vote counted. >> if you listen to republicans, obama is going to be terrible obama is going to be terrible for your doctor, because now
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tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medications, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sexual activity. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess with cialis. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or if you have any allergic reactions such as rash, hives, swelling of the lips, tongue or throat, or difficulty breathing or swallowing, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a 30-tablet free trial.
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>> consider that just a couple of weeks ago apple rolled out a new mobile operating system. and within days they found a glitch. so they fixed it. i don't remember anybody suggesting apple should stop selling iphones or ipads or threatening to shut down the company if they did. >> the obama administration never shied away from the fact that there would be glitches with the roll out of the obama care exchanges. but some members failed to realize that the glitches are caused by the high numbers of people applying for insurance.
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here in new york, they received over 2 million calls in the first 90 millions. >> joining me is dr. patel. she worked with the obama administration. as a health care provider and someone who worked on the law, day one there were a lot of glitches, this wasn't just the fox news propaganda machine, web sites were down. how do you think things went? >> i think it went very well. people know there were options. even though there were technical glitches, like the president said, we're fixing them, we're working on it and no matter what you can always get ahold of someone, even by the good old american land line. >> do you worry about this threshold action where you need to get people to do it and the first time you do it, if you go
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there's a pre roll-out, you're never going to see that clip. one little thing stopped me. do you worry about getting those people in the next three months? >> what's nice is we have all the way until march 1st to get them so i think that's important. the more people hear about things, like even what you're doing for your show tonight, the people will go oh, yeah, i can do that. >> my parents had to nag and nag and nag to get me to sign up for a catastrophic plan when i was no longer under their plan and i was a young freelancer making about $15,000 a year. i want to play you a clip from bill clinton talking about can you get young healthy people in the pool. >> this only works if young,
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healthy people show up and if they claim their tax credit, it will only cost them $100 or so, we have to have them in the pool because otherwise all these costs can not be held if older people with preexisting conditions are disproportionately represented. you got to have everybody lined up. >> given the model, are you confident this is going to work out? >> yes, i am. i think it may not happen right away. people will need to be nagged. moms and the mothers and wives and significant women in the families often are the chief nagger and i do believe -- >> by the way, a true gender reductionist here but continue.
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>> i can speak for my personal experience is i'm the chief nagger in my family. what this results in as people hear more about this law, i had a patient today who didn't have insurance. she's 32. so in the young range. and she just said when can i sign up and when can i actually get an appointment to see a doctor? so i think that's what's going to matter. >> the proof of the pudding is in the eating and the proof of it is in seeing a doctor. there is this jimmy kimmel bit where he's asking people and the amount of confusion is very evident. you've done town halls for people who are uninsured. >> right. >> what are the questions people have and what is going to crack that? >> the most common question i got today was you're telling me i'm going to get health care starting when? they want to know when can they see a doctor, will it cover prescriptions, will this give them visits to the emergency room, the doctor, the hospital.
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they wanted to know if they didn't sign up today because they had to go to work, could they sign up another day. they all were confused like is this the only day they could sign up. they wanted to know what proof they needed. if i sign up online, do i have to show my identification when i go to the doctor? instead of focusing what's happening on capitol hill, this is what people really care -- >> i saw somebody who did sign up today who said it was less like shopping for a flight and more like a credit card application. i thought to myself, americans are good at getting credit cards. that seems like a doable amount of paper work. >> it takes a little more time but it should. you know, you need to fill out your address, you need to kind
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of if i am out what your health, we know that you have to talk about your age and what community you live in because that's how we determine how much your health insurance costs. those are the questions people were asking was how do we do this, how quickly can we get insurance when -- >> and when can i see a doctor? and that returns us to this issue here is, if it works, is about getting millions of people who don't have health care, reliable health care and getting that peace of mind and that wellness and that kind of grace that a functioning safety net and a social contract provides. dr. patel, thank you. >> thank you. >> remember the little boy who stood next president obama? i'm really excited about this. he stood by president obama when he signed the affordable care act. that little boy will be here to stay with us.
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march 23, 2010 at the signing ceremony for the affordable care act, there's the central figure in the picture, much shorter than anyone else. he's marcelas owens. the senator from washington was the first person to tell the story of his life under the hold health care regime. >> i'm going to tell everyone about this little boy. i met him at a health care rally in seattle. he was 10 years old. he and his two sisters have been through a lot. two years ago, his mother, tiffany, who is not in this picture, that's his grandmother, tiffany lost her life because she was not insured.
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>> today marcelas lives in seattle with his grandmother. it's my pleasure to welcome marcelas owens and his grandmother. thank you for making the trip out here. >> thank you for having us. >> probably know this, you probably do, because if i were you i would know this about myself. your photo is so well known there. how do you feel today when this major piece of legislation starts to go into effect? >> i'm feeling really good because today is where you can actually see the effect that all of the hard work that everyone has been doing so you can actually see people -- this is like the stepping stone, like the first piece of change that's going to be happening. and so many people are going to be benefiting from this. i don't even think a lot of people realize. >> you were an activist of sorts, right i?
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mean, you were on -- it wasn't like some accident that you ended up at that bill signing. >> yeah. >> you were working hard to get universal health care because of the experience that you had had, the tragic experience you had in your own family. what did you learn from that experience of being an activist, of going and talking to members of congress? >> i learned that -- that when you work hard with people that are as dedicated as you, that you can make a lot of big changes that a lot of people may have never thought would happen. >> you lost your daughter to illness. >> i did. >> i can't even begin to fathom as a father of a child. what happened and how do you understand the way the old health care regime contributed to the loss of your daughter? >> what happened was that tiffany basically fell through
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the cracks of our health care system. she was working as an assistant manager, she had health care.
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